Kenneth Payne’s long career in state, local and federal government included a decade as chief policy adviser to the Rhode Island Senate. Today he is a University of Rhode Island adjunct professor and chairman of the stakeholder group for the Ocean Special Area Management Plan (SAMP), an effort to create zoning regulations for the state’s coastal waters. He spoke with Providence Business News recently about the SAMP process and how to make government more efficient.
PBN: What is your role in the stakeholder group?
PAYNE: I’m the chairperson of the stakeholders group. This is a voluntary activity on my part, and as a consequence of that, I look upon myself as the agent of the stakeholders. My responsibility is to the people participating in the process. It’s not to be convenient to or cooperative with the technical side of things or to advance the interest of any applicant or state agency. I would describe myself as the person who is willing to go to bat for participants in the stakeholder process. And I do that. I know how systems work in Rhode Island, and I’m willing to use that knowledge on behalf of the stakeholders.
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PBN: So it’s almost an advocacy role, as much as a mediator?
PAYNE: That’s right, so I try to listen very carefully – I don’t expect there to be consensus. I think conflict is very healthy. If everybody is saying the same thing, they’re either brainwashed or there’s no issue. … My job is to make sure that all views are fairly heard, and that all interests are treated in a nondiscriminatory way. And if anything unfair were going to happen, I would resign. I think it’s important to understand that, because I don’t want to preside in something that is unfair [or] underhanded.
PBN: The commercial fishermen have expressed grave concern about the impact the SAMP could have on their livelihood. Should they be worried? Do there have to be winners and losers in the SAMP?
PAYNE: Resource allocations can have uneven distribution of benefits and liabilities. That’s part of it. Could the fishermen be adversely affected? Yes, they could. And it doesn’t mean they necessarily will be … but it’s a possible outcome.
PBN: How are you feeling about the stakeholder process so far?
PAYNE: I’m feeling very good. Some of the meetings have been a little bumpy, but … that’s a good thing. … I have also said, if there’s anyone who wants to talk to me outside the SAMP – [if] they are cautious about airing their concerns and they want to just unburden themselves – I will be available. … And do you know who took me up on that? The fishermen.
PBN: There is also some concern that the stakeholder group sessions won’t impact the final product. How will we see the stakeholder group affecting the decision-making process of the SAMP?
PAYNE: I think that the SAMP is both a technical document, which contains both studies and analysis, and a guidance document that can say how issues are going to be handled. … The SAMP can say, what are the protocols for studies; if you decide to build something, what are the types of mitigation measures you have to propose; and what will be the rules of activity if you want to put lobster pots in a wind farm area – what is the standard practice? The SAMP isn’t just a series of technical studies. The SAMP is also guidance about how certain types of behavior can take place.
PBN: Do you think it’s good that we’re creating the SAMP?
PAYNE: Absolutely. The marine environment has a lot of the natural resource assets of the world and, certainly, of Rhode Island. And we know relatively little about that environment. We know more about the moon than we do about the sea floor, truthfully. … What [the SAMP] is – and this is really the great beauty of it – is it is ocean-spatial planning. …
Here is an opportunity for Rhode Island to be a leader in an area where it wants to be a leader. Rhode Island is very proud, justly, of its graduate school of oceanography, of its bay campus, of providing national and global leadership on marine issues. So isn’t it good that Rhode Island decides it wants to be among the first jurisdictions in the world that wants to do ocean-spatial planning? … That’s the cool side. The other side is, it’s dauntingly complex, in terms of bureaucracy. So people think, this sounds like a vast bureaucratic headache. They are right. But I say, look, that’s not the only way to look at it. It’s also got this elegance about it, and that conceptual elegance is really quite stunning.
PBN: You have also written extensively about the history and structure of Rhode Island government. How do you think it needs to change for a new century?
PAYNE: The standard notion [of government] is vertical organization, a chain of command. But the way things actually function, and how pieces connect, are horizontally. So the model of public administration is vertical; the actuality is horizontal. And if you don’t look at ways to achieve horizontal effectiveness, you are not going to have good outcomes. … How do you connect epidemiological data at the Department of Health with housing data that’s now predominantly either at Rhode Island Housing or the Housing Resources Commission, which is in the Department of Administration? Because, for a citizen of Rhode Island, the real issue is not that there’s a bureaucrat reporting to another bureaucrat until you reach the top. It’s how people interact around making sure that housing conditions are good and healthy.
We are not going to be able to solve Rhode Island’s challenges by making government bigger. Increasing the size of the enterprise isn’t there. But we still want to be high performing. So the way we get high performance without increasing size is by strengthening the productivity on a horizontal basis.
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INTERVIEW
Kenneth Payne
POSITION: Chairman, Ocean Special Area Management Plan stakeholder group; senior policy adviser and adjunct professor of marine affairs, University of Rhode Island College of the Environment and Life Sciences
BACKGROUND: Senior policy adviser to Rhode Island Senate and director of R.I. Senate Policy Office (1997-2007); congressional staff member, U.S. Sen. Claiborne Pell (1988-1996); executive director, R.I. League of Cities and Towns (1977-1986)
EDUCATION: B.A. in history, University of Rhode Island; M.A. in community planning, University of Rhode Island
FIRST JOB: As a kid, Payne got a dump-picker’s license that allowed him to trawl through the junkyard. His first paying job was as a paper boy.
RESIDENCE: Richmond
AGE: 62
