Name: P. Chrisman Iribe
Age: 51
Position: President, Chief Operating Officer East Region, PG&E National Energy Group
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Education: Bachelor’s in economics from George Washington University
Background: Iribe manages PG&E’s eastern operations, which include ownership and management interests in electric generating plants throughout the eastern region. Prior to his current post, Iribe was president and chief operating officer of PG&E Generating. With the company since its inception in 1989, Iribe helped develop the power generation unit into one of the nation’s largest producers of competitive electric power.
Residence: Washington, D.C.
Headquartered in Bethesda, Maryland, PG&E National Energy Group develops, builds, owns and operates electric generating and natural gas pipeline facilities and provides energy trading, marketing and risk-management services.
Among its properties, the company owns Brayton Point Station, the Somerset power plant that provides nearly 10 percent of all of New England’s energy, and Manchester Street Power Station in Providence.
The Brayton Point plant – which the company acquired in 1998 — has been embroiled in controversy. Attorney General Sheldon Whitehouse has considered filing suit against the company for allegedly polluting Mount Hope Bay and Narragansett Bay. At the same time, PG&E National Energy Group is operating the facility under a permit that officially expired in 1995 and a Memorandum of Understanding reached in 1997.
Environmental groups such as Save The Bay have also been highly critical of the impact the power plant has had on the environment, and has blamed the company for a sharp decline in certain fish populations.
PBN: Could you put into some perspective, just how big Brayton Point is?
IRIBE: Brayton Point in Somerset is New England’s largest fossil fuel facility. The electricity is sold to the New England grid, which means all consumers in New England participate in some of Brayton’s power. It provides 8 percent of all of New England’s needs. It is New England’s largest power plant.
The plant is the subject of a battle pitting state governments in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, as well as environmental groups, on one side and PG&E National Energy Group on the other.
Brayton Point has been accused of lots of things recently, particularly affecting the fish population of Mount Hope Bay and by extension, Narragansett Bay. Any applicant, for any sort of permit or federal action, the applicant has to do all the work. The government isn’t going to spend the money. If you are going to apply for something, you spend the money to help the government make decisions. We have been involved in studying Narragansett Bay since 1996. It’s been a huge amount of work. What we have found is that the power plant, which takes in a lot of water…nothing that we have found shows a substantial impact, certainly at the levels that have been articulated by others, on fishing. In fact, we think that for fishing in general, predator losses and the pressures of humanity – sewage out-fall and all the rest – has had a far greater effect than the power plant. The other thing we do is that we raise the water’s temperature. We discharge warmer water into the bay. But again, all of the studies that have been done at the EPA’s direction, we believe show no appreciable harm to the fish. Some of the fish even like the water a little warmer. And some don’t. Some move out.
You feel as if you’ve been tapped as a scapegoat?
We have been singled out. It’s much easier to pick on a single power plant than the entire fishing industry or birds of prey. And they, by the way, consume far more fish — 60 times as much fish in a year as we effect in a year. Between 1995 and 1997, our water permit has had to be renewed. We applied appropriately. The federal EPA, Massachusetts and Rhode Island got together and agreed on a MOU during the renewal period. We’ve agreed to certain additional limits. Those include a cap on degrees.
What can you tell me about the fish population in Mount Hope Bay?
There are some fish populations that are down, such as winter flounder, but there are a lot of fish species that are way up. Frankly, to say that there is a ‘dead zone’ in Mount Hope Bay, which was in one press account, is hardly true. There are fishermen out in Mount Hope Bay every day getting fish out of that bay.
But what is then, causing a depletion of the winter flounder, for example?
We think it’s several things that dwarf us by magnitude. One is over-fishing, both commercial fishing and a little bit of sport fishing. Second is the increase in predators. People don’t realize this, but in the past 10 years, Cormorants have gone from 18 nests to more than 2,000. They are all over the bay and they didn’t used to be. They come to where it is easy for them to live, where they can find food and the water is fairly shallow. Lastly, there is no question that humanity is pressing on our coastal areas. In some cases there are uncontrolled sewage outflows pushing on the bay. And the water in the bay has naturally been getting warmer over the past 20 years. That has given rise to a little creature called the sand-shrimp, which by itself can wipe out the population of eggs and small flounder that have just hatched.
What is your message to Attorney General Sheldon Whitehouse – he seems resigned to taking you to court?
We think we have the science on our side. We are very convinced that we ultimately have the policy mechanisms on our side at the EPA, and that frankly, we are going to prevail. We think we are more than doing the right thing. We are operating today under the MOU agreed upon by the states of Massachusetts and Rhode Island. We have reports monthly, quarterly and annually that show that we are exactly living to those requirements. For the attorney general to suggest that we should pay a penalty for living according to that law or those regulations is very disappointing. He has accused us in recent press accounts of not meeting them. We’ve met with the state. We have filed document after document. It’s certainly not true that we have not met with the state of Rhode Island. We are in the midst of a permit application with the EPA. Talking to the attorney general about the same subject is not appropriate.
How often should we expect to see energy prices shift?
Every day is a new day for energy prices. Today, energy prices are substantially higher than they were just two weeks ago.
What dictates that?
It is a very large and very open competitive market. Virtually all of the gas is open to the balance of supply and demand. Some of what is going on right now is the expectation that supplies will be tighter or more limited in the near future, the next 12 to 18 months. There are buyers who are making commitments to make sure they have supply and that is pushing or raising the sense of demand. At the same time, the suppliers and marketers, the people who have access to gas in the ground, have a sense that gas is going to be less available. So between the two of them the price has gone up rather substantially.
People are quick to assume that world developments play a key role in the costs of various energy sources. Is this true?
It is very true for oil. The price of crude, which impacts the price of gasoline and home heating oil, is a world market and a world price. The demand for crude oil – which results in gasoline and other products – certainly impacts those products. It’s a little less connected, whether natural gas in the United States and oil are linked directly. There is some linkage. Oil has been rising for the past three or four months at the world level. It was as low as $20 at the turn of the year, it is now about $27 a barrel. So oil has gone up roughly 35 percent. Gas has gone up, from winter prices of $3, to roughly $4. So gas has gone up 30 percent. Whether they are linked is not always clear. Natural gas tends to be a local thing developed by pipeline. Oil can float all around the world.
Where are we going in terms of energy sources – what are we going to see more of, and what are we going to see less of?
At the national level, we will probably see more natural gas, principally, to make electricity. Gas use for the residential population will grow very modestly. But the population of the United States is growing modestly. Industrial energy use, in general, has been on a slow downward trend. There’s been a fair amount of conservation. There’ll be more gas use and an expanding gas market. What’s happening is that gas is taking over much of the growth in electric generation.
This may be an elementary question, but how do we make electricity these days?
You take the energy…and you can get that from falling water or you burn some fossil fuel and you spin or turn a generator, which makes electricity in the electric linings. That goes all the way back to our friend. Mr. Edison.
Are you concerned at all about some of the federal mandates regarding renewable energy?
No, we’re very supportive. This company continues to invest in renewable power. We currently have wind power in New York and in California. And we’re busy building new hydro power at an existing dam on the Ohio River.
